Friday, June 16, 2006

EDITED: Boli vs. Jose on...Cuban Human Rights

I guess I am supposed to be debating Jose about human rights in Cuba.

So here goes:


Jose Reyes said...

Ok Boli, now, what kind of post is that? You mixed all the statements up, but who cares. We are here "To Discuss Human Rights in Cuba" and that's it, forget the comments that were made on the other blog, that stays there. This here is a debate about Human Rights in Cuba" and I'll add "in the last 47 Years". Open up the debate like that, post it like that. What happened on the other blog, stays there. If you post the "Debate" as a seperate post, then I Will debate with you. But this post has nothing to do with the debate.

This is exactly what you posted on the other blog and now we are here?


Hope your Cuban history doesn't come from books, because your reading comprehension blows. People in Miami should spend less time banning books in public school libraries, and more on fixing the school system.
1:51 PM

Jose said...

Well, I guess I meant, discuss human rights in Cuba. Ok, I'll start, with a simple question to you. "What is your definition of human rights in general? Let's leave Cuba on the side just for this question?

galloglass said...

José...I read your comments at the other blog...since I am not Cuban or Cuban American, I will cease and desist from telling people about the horrors of Castro that I have read and heard from my Cuban friends and emigres because I am not Cuban and have no right to speak on said matters. Boli-Nica...will you be my witness?

Jose Reyes said...

This has nothing to do with the other blog. I already apologized for my misinterpretation of his statement. That's settled, right boli? We are here to discuss Human Rights in Cuba, now and the last 47 years. i asked him a question and I'm waiting for his answer.

Jose Reyes said...

End of Discussion! I guess?

Boli-Nica said...

Human Rights IMO includes the basic rights enshrined in the US Constitution, enumerated in the Bill of Rights, which essentially protect the governed from their ruler.

Jose Reyes said...

Ok Boli, your definition seems to have a twist of politics in it. I don't see any politics in Human Rights at all. I go by this definition: The basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are entitled, often held to include the right to life and liberty, freedom of thought and expression, and equality before the law. Given this definition, Castro and his regime violates Human Rights to the fullest. What's your opinion on that?

Boli-Nica said...

it is political in the sense that you are talking about the relationship between citizens and the government which governs them.

Ok, talking Cuba, specifically, let me ask you a couple of questions.

i) How many people did the Castro regime execute, in the immediate aftermath of the revolutionary victory in January of 1959 - lets say in the first couple of months, ii) how many were executed in the first two years -lets say right up to Giron/Bay of Pigs? iii. What sort of trials did these folks have?

Just wanted to clarify the figures, if you could please provide links.

Jose Reyes said...

I'm glad we both have settled down and are willing to resolve our differences, if we have any. I have no beef with you and I appologized before when I misunderstood you.
Well, I strongly feel that when you violate the "Human" Rights of any person, there's no political agenda behind it. It is all about control and domination. Castro hides everything behind his politics, which is the same system a mafia uses. With Castro, politics doesn't work, only force does, he'll never give in. He scares everybody and controls the "lives" of the people. He is constantly threatening the Cuban people with his chivatos and his nazi-style police. He also controls the Cuban people with lack of food and also this is how he controls his chivatos and his police, he gives them more access to food. He is constantly rationing the food, meanwhile the tourists have an abundance of food when they travel to Cuba and stay in the luxury hotels.
To answer you on the question concerning the number of innocent people who were executed or unjustly tortured and placed in jail for 20+ jail terms, you know the exact numbers are almost impossible to obtain but my father who was elated and fooled by Castro along with 75% of the population, started to have doubts when Castro started to televise firing squad style executions. My uncle who was placed in jail and released in 1980 could tell you that there were thousands of Cubans in jail with him. I don't know the exact numbers but in my opinion, I would estimate 5,000 to 10,000 in those first 3 years, who really knows. In the next 44 years, who knows exactly, but I'm sure there are 10,000 to 20,000 more. Many people just mysteriously disappeared, never to be found again. Thousands of people have died on high seas because the Castro regime would not grant them a visa, which is another way to control the people. What about the people who have died of hunger and complications due to malnutrition, those numbers could run into the 10's of thousands.
Basically, everyone is a slave in Cuba. As to provide links, it's not easy and you know that. But being that I am Cuban and I've met many Cubans and know many Cubans who were there and who were in jail, I came up with these numbers, I think that's accurate enough and most of the times, in these situations, the actual numbers are higher. I also know that Che was in charge of many of them. (Watch now how the che fans come out to comment)
My concern now is for the people in Venezuela and for your people also. This is my goal now, so what happened in Cuba will not happen over there also. For me this is not a popularity contest between blogs and websites, I feel we should unite to overcome these thugs who have taken over Cuba, Venezuela and now are trying to take over your country, Bolivia.
I hope I answered your questions.

Jonathan said...

Good to see the air cleared up, though I allegdly still dislike all Cubans, for pointing out one Cuban's mistakes.


Jose Reyes said...

Yeah Johnathan but my mistake was tiny.Your mistake was amplifying the misunderstanding between me and Boli. You made a pretty big deal about it and you were an ass about it, but I will forgive you. You see, the air is all crystal-cleared up between Boli and I but you still owe me an apology, nothing major, but you still owe it to me. Then, the air will be cleared between you and I and we could move on and even, who knows, work together.

Norman said...


When you can forgive without conditions, without asking for an apology, well, it's a big step. Until then, you are held captive by another. If you decide that you can't forgive until someone else takes action, you've enslaved yourself to the other. Sorry to get hokey, but I've found that it's true in my life. Don't wait on an apology to let it go.

Good thread going. While I tend to believe your description of Cuba under Castro, I've no first hand experience with Cuba. I'd be interested to hear some of the corroborating data. I've spoken with some first generation Cubans and with some Bolivians who have visited Cuba. I'm amazed at what they've witnessed. I'm more amazed that the general US public remains so blind to it. I guess it wouldn't be true Hollywood to give an honest exposé on Fidel and Che.

Jose said...

Norman you are great people, very observant and I've learned very much from you in the little that we have communicated. You noticed that I am still a little mad at Johnathan, but by nature, I am a good person and very easy to get along with. I really didn't understand his last post, maybe you could explain it to me, please. But, if it was good or bad, which it looks like to me, I want to make peace with him, anyway. But I don't trust him as a man until he apologizes to me, like a man. Hey Norman, don't tell me that I'm not trying. If he doesn't apologize, then what can I say? I feel good right now about myself since I took the first step(s) to resolve the little static we have. But if he doesn't answer then, what can I say?
Tell me Norman what would you say?

Jose said...

Listen Norman, send me an email please, I would like to talk to you about something else. You don't have an email address, that's why I am asking. Thanks

culito blanco said...

false advertising! donde estan los bifes?

well boli, just wanted to drop by and leave you this link

and this one

Jonathan said...

Oye culito blanco a menos que nos visite algún zurdillo defensor de castro no debería haber bife por aquí, aunque te perdiste la versión no editada del post original.

Y para José, si utilicé términos despectivos en mi último post del otro sitio, eso fue porque tu usaste términos similares con los bolivianos que estaban comentando –entre los cuales me incluyo.

Me pareció bastante impertinente que comenzaras a atacar a todos sin molestarte en leer lo que habíamos escrito, aun cuando claramente apoyamos la causa que defiendes. Esa forma de comunicarte me pareció arrogante e improvisada y por tanto no representativa de la comunidad cubana en general. Es por ello que te respondí de esa manera. Si eso te parece un error pequeño, pues allá tu, en cuanto a mi concierne, esta es mi respuesta.


En el idioma de mi tierra, como hombre.

Jose Reyes said...

Ok, J-LO, tu empersaste hablar mierda con tu commentarios y tu lloradera, tienes que tener cuidado con lo que tu dices y tienes que ser mas respetoso. "Yo no tengo ningun problema con los Bolivianos" y "Nunca a tenido problemas con ellos" No trates a cambiar el tema otra vez, ni me acuse mas, descarado. Vaya pa....!

This is my last comment on this post. As for Boli-Nica, I respect him very much. I'm sorry it got ugly again man, take care!

Norman said...

I sent my email to your website.

I appreciate the way you moved this to your blog. From one of Jim's previous posts, I take it he didn't care for the manner folks were discussing the topics on his blog.

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